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	<title>Comments on: DOJ Says Google Copyright Book Settlement Not Appropriate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/</link>
	<description>Patents, Software Patents, Patent Applications &#38; Patent Law</description>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8599</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8599</guid>
		<description>Some additional information: The New York Times published this op-ed yesterday by Sergey Brin regarding the motivation for the Google Books project.  It also includes rebuttals to what he perceives as some of the objections to the settlement:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/opinion/09brin.html?_r=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some additional information: The New York Times published this op-ed yesterday by Sergey Brin regarding the motivation for the Google Books project.  It also includes rebuttals to what he perceives as some of the objections to the settlement:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/opinion/09brin.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/opinion/09brin.html?_r=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8273</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8273</guid>
		<description>&quot;the State Attorneys General who objected to the Agreement argue that State abandoned property laws should determine who gets to control orphan works.&quot;

Eric,

What the States Attorneys General suggest regarding the applicability of &quot;abandoned property laws&quot; in this situation makes no sense to me and shows they don&#039;t have a clue as to how copyright law works, or what federal preemption means.  As Gene noted, ever since the 1989 Berne Convention was adopted by the U.S., copyright exists the minute the author creates the work.  The author owns the work, plain and simple, and controls the exclusive rights in the work, including the right to doing nothing with the work.  The States can&#039;t simply ignore the right of the author (or their heirs) to do noting to exercise exclusive rights in the copyrighted work.  In fact, 17 USC 201(e) suggests that any such attempt at &quot;involuntary transer&quot; by the State, such as treating the copyright as &quot;abandoned property&quot; where there has been no voluntary transfer of the work by the author is prohibited by federal law.

The SAG&#039;s position that the &quot;States have sovereign immunity and cannot be subject to a federal court&#039;s order&quot; is completely nonsensical.  First, the 11th Amendment that is asserted only applies to actions for damages against the States, nothing else.  Also, 17 USC 301 already preempts the State&#039;s ability to create rights the same or similar to federal copyright makes it clear which law will prevail, and that is federal law.  If the States&#039; view on &quot;abandoned property&quot; is in conflict with the federal copyright statutes, the States will lose under either 17 USC 301, or the general doctrine of federal preemption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the State Attorneys General who objected to the Agreement argue that State abandoned property laws should determine who gets to control orphan works.&#8221;</p>
<p>Eric,</p>
<p>What the States Attorneys General suggest regarding the applicability of &#8220;abandoned property laws&#8221; in this situation makes no sense to me and shows they don&#8217;t have a clue as to how copyright law works, or what federal preemption means.  As Gene noted, ever since the 1989 Berne Convention was adopted by the U.S., copyright exists the minute the author creates the work.  The author owns the work, plain and simple, and controls the exclusive rights in the work, including the right to doing nothing with the work.  The States can&#8217;t simply ignore the right of the author (or their heirs) to do noting to exercise exclusive rights in the copyrighted work.  In fact, 17 USC 201(e) suggests that any such attempt at &#8220;involuntary transer&#8221; by the State, such as treating the copyright as &#8220;abandoned property&#8221; where there has been no voluntary transfer of the work by the author is prohibited by federal law.</p>
<p>The SAG&#8217;s position that the &#8220;States have sovereign immunity and cannot be subject to a federal court&#8217;s order&#8221; is completely nonsensical.  First, the 11th Amendment that is asserted only applies to actions for damages against the States, nothing else.  Also, 17 USC 301 already preempts the State&#8217;s ability to create rights the same or similar to federal copyright makes it clear which law will prevail, and that is federal law.  If the States&#8217; view on &#8220;abandoned property&#8221; is in conflict with the federal copyright statutes, the States will lose under either 17 USC 301, or the general doctrine of federal preemption.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8271</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8271</guid>
		<description>Eric-

It sounds like you are heading down the path of compulsory licensing.  There already is compulsory licensing in one way, namely statutory damages.  The trouble is that the argument is that it is just to difficult to find out who are the owners of the orphan works, so they want them to be taken and given to Google.  If it is to difficult to find out who owns them why then wouldn&#039;t it also be to difficult to find out who payment is owed to?  There are owners of abandoned works, and it seems like for the public good what is being said is that since it is to much work their rights are forfeited and transferred to Google, who will then do what they want and won&#039;t pay the owners because it is to hard to find out who they are.  Sounds like an egregious taking to me.

-Gene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric-</p>
<p>It sounds like you are heading down the path of compulsory licensing.  There already is compulsory licensing in one way, namely statutory damages.  The trouble is that the argument is that it is just to difficult to find out who are the owners of the orphan works, so they want them to be taken and given to Google.  If it is to difficult to find out who owns them why then wouldn&#8217;t it also be to difficult to find out who payment is owed to?  There are owners of abandoned works, and it seems like for the public good what is being said is that since it is to much work their rights are forfeited and transferred to Google, who will then do what they want and won&#8217;t pay the owners because it is to hard to find out who they are.  Sounds like an egregious taking to me.</p>
<p>-Gene</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Hellman</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8268</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8268</guid>
		<description>Gene,
Suppose the agreement covered nothing more than payment of damages for infringement. Then  there would be money that would certainly have to be treated as abandoned property. Is it still absurd?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gene,<br />
Suppose the agreement covered nothing more than payment of damages for infringement. Then  there would be money that would certainly have to be treated as abandoned property. Is it still absurd?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8267</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8267</guid>
		<description>Eric-

I think it is absurd to talk about &quot;abandoned&quot; property.  The copyright laws grant the owner the right to exploit or not exploit.  Although exceptionally watered down, a copyright is still a form of exclusive right, which means the owners have the right to exclude and no affirmative right to do anything.  If this or any other court takes rights away based on them being abandoned that would substantially alter copyright law and effectively allow corporations to wrestle away unused rights.  That would fundamentally change the nature of a copyright and that would be unwise in my opinion.

-Gene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric-</p>
<p>I think it is absurd to talk about &#8220;abandoned&#8221; property.  The copyright laws grant the owner the right to exploit or not exploit.  Although exceptionally watered down, a copyright is still a form of exclusive right, which means the owners have the right to exclude and no affirmative right to do anything.  If this or any other court takes rights away based on them being abandoned that would substantially alter copyright law and effectively allow corporations to wrestle away unused rights.  That would fundamentally change the nature of a copyright and that would be unwise in my opinion.</p>
<p>-Gene</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Hellman</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/21/doj-says-google-copyright-book-settlement-not-appropriate/id=6272/#comment-8266</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Hellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=6272#comment-8266</guid>
		<description>I think you mistake the term &quot;derivative product&quot; for &quot;derivative work&quot;. In the derivative products referred to in the DOJ filing are print-on-demand and subscription services. 

Interestingly, the State Attorneys General who objected to the Agreement argue that State abandoned property laws should determine who gets to control orphan works. What do you think of this angle? For more, see: http://go-to-hellman.blogspot.com/2009/09/in-which-judge-denny-chin-becomes.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you mistake the term &#8220;derivative product&#8221; for &#8220;derivative work&#8221;. In the derivative products referred to in the DOJ filing are print-on-demand and subscription services. </p>
<p>Interestingly, the State Attorneys General who objected to the Agreement argue that State abandoned property laws should determine who gets to control orphan works. What do you think of this angle? For more, see: <a href="http://go-to-hellman.blogspot.com/2009/09/in-which-judge-denny-chin-becomes.html" rel="nofollow">http://go-to-hellman.blogspot.com/2009/09/in-which-judge-denny-chin-becomes.html</a></p>
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