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	<title>Comments on: CAFC Sanity on Permanent Injunctions. A Twisted Sister Moment?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/</link>
	<description>Patents, Software Patents, Patent Applications &#38; Patent Law</description>
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		<title>By: Stan E. Delo</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-328146</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan E. Delo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 02:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-328146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the very interesting answer Gene. I am tending towards an exclusive licensing arrangement, with perhaps turn-key tooling all ready to go. If my patent is Presumed to be Valid, it might help my case out quite a bit. 

Otherwise I could just skip the whole patent concept, and just be there first with the best, but the market would probably evaporate pretty quickly, I am supposing. Different strategies for different fields I tend to think.

Have you voted for your favorite IP blog yet?  I like it a lot here, as the discussions tend to be very elightened. and lacking in rudeness for the most part. The odd loose cannon can usually just be ignored, and wisdom and education can be pursued without undue interference. 

But then again there are now derivation proceedings instead of interference proceedings. Looks as if it might take several years to figure that whole thing out. Why is that even neccesary? To align our patent system with other folks overseas?  Why should an American inventor care about that even slightly?

Meanwhile our duly elected representatives are all too happy to sell my IP rights to the highest bidder. In this case IT and phone innovations, which might only be valid for about another 8 years. What then in re patent law?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the very interesting answer Gene. I am tending towards an exclusive licensing arrangement, with perhaps turn-key tooling all ready to go. If my patent is Presumed to be Valid, it might help my case out quite a bit. </p>
<p>Otherwise I could just skip the whole patent concept, and just be there first with the best, but the market would probably evaporate pretty quickly, I am supposing. Different strategies for different fields I tend to think.</p>
<p>Have you voted for your favorite IP blog yet?  I like it a lot here, as the discussions tend to be very elightened. and lacking in rudeness for the most part. The odd loose cannon can usually just be ignored, and wisdom and education can be pursued without undue interference. </p>
<p>But then again there are now derivation proceedings instead of interference proceedings. Looks as if it might take several years to figure that whole thing out. Why is that even neccesary? To align our patent system with other folks overseas?  Why should an American inventor care about that even slightly?</p>
<p>Meanwhile our duly elected representatives are all too happy to sell my IP rights to the highest bidder. In this case IT and phone innovations, which might only be valid for about another 8 years. What then in re patent law?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-328086</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2012 01:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-328086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stan-

Contingency representation in patent cases was once upon a time completely unheard of. It is still not at all common, but it is far more common than it used to be. Those who are involved with working with inventors, either on a contingency basis or in partnership, tell me that they take about 1% of what they are approached with. That number seems quite reasonable and suggests that contingency representation is alive and well. Most inventors think they have great patents and convince themselves that things that are not infringing are infringing. So there are just a lot of bad cases that inventors want to pursue. In my experience overwhelmingly those who want contingency representation have a very shaky case.  There are also situations where infringement might be straight forward but there isn&#039;t much in the way of damages. You just can&#039;t take a contingency case in those circumstances.

For inventors with a solid patent and widespread infringement there will likely be patent litigators who would be willing to take a matter on a contingency, or companies that will partner on enforcement, such as Acacia. But in these deals the split is typically at best 60-40, but more commonly a 50-50 split after expenses are paid.  This may be the only route to go though because those who are infringing may not be willing to talk about a license as long as an inventor is going it alone. 

The other alternative is to try and sell the patent. While that leads to upfront money it is a lot less than what most inventors would like to obtain.

Cheers.

-Gene]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan-</p>
<p>Contingency representation in patent cases was once upon a time completely unheard of. It is still not at all common, but it is far more common than it used to be. Those who are involved with working with inventors, either on a contingency basis or in partnership, tell me that they take about 1% of what they are approached with. That number seems quite reasonable and suggests that contingency representation is alive and well. Most inventors think they have great patents and convince themselves that things that are not infringing are infringing. So there are just a lot of bad cases that inventors want to pursue. In my experience overwhelmingly those who want contingency representation have a very shaky case.  There are also situations where infringement might be straight forward but there isn&#8217;t much in the way of damages. You just can&#8217;t take a contingency case in those circumstances.</p>
<p>For inventors with a solid patent and widespread infringement there will likely be patent litigators who would be willing to take a matter on a contingency, or companies that will partner on enforcement, such as Acacia. But in these deals the split is typically at best 60-40, but more commonly a 50-50 split after expenses are paid.  This may be the only route to go though because those who are infringing may not be willing to talk about a license as long as an inventor is going it alone. </p>
<p>The other alternative is to try and sell the patent. While that leads to upfront money it is a lot less than what most inventors would like to obtain.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>-Gene</p>
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		<title>By: Stan E. Delo</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-327803</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan E. Delo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-327803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW- I understand that patent agents are not licensed to represent you in a court of law, which means that I would have to hire an attorney if things ever had to go to a court dispute. In these uncertain times, I can imagine that contingency representation is going to be harder to find, and will probably be more expensive if I can find it at all. 

Stan~]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW- I understand that patent agents are not licensed to represent you in a court of law, which means that I would have to hire an attorney if things ever had to go to a court dispute. In these uncertain times, I can imagine that contingency representation is going to be harder to find, and will probably be more expensive if I can find it at all. </p>
<p>Stan~</p>
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		<title>By: Stan E. Delo</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-327780</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan E. Delo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-327780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Finally a few are getting things really right for a change!  Why would I bother to spend the money, and especially the Time to acquire a patent, unless I thought it was really going to be worth something some day? Your remarks about patents being wasting assets really rang a bell for me, which expression I had never heard of before. Going after a valid patent is a leap of faith in some respects, hoping that it might actually be worth something some day in the future.  Prior art, bad court decisions, and market conditions can render a patent virtually worthless. even after you have done all of the heavy lifting to make something new actually work as advertised to the world eventually.

Gone with the stroke of a gavel in some cases, so I hope to never have to be there. I asked my patent agent about what might happen during possible litigation, and he said something like;

&quot;Why would we ever want to appear in a court of law?&quot;  The proverbial ounce of prevention being the unspoken message.

Stan~]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally a few are getting things really right for a change!  Why would I bother to spend the money, and especially the Time to acquire a patent, unless I thought it was really going to be worth something some day? Your remarks about patents being wasting assets really rang a bell for me, which expression I had never heard of before. Going after a valid patent is a leap of faith in some respects, hoping that it might actually be worth something some day in the future.  Prior art, bad court decisions, and market conditions can render a patent virtually worthless. even after you have done all of the heavy lifting to make something new actually work as advertised to the world eventually.</p>
<p>Gone with the stroke of a gavel in some cases, so I hope to never have to be there. I asked my patent agent about what might happen during possible litigation, and he said something like;</p>
<p>&#8220;Why would we ever want to appear in a court of law?&#8221;  The proverbial ounce of prevention being the unspoken message.</p>
<p>Stan~</p>
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		<title>By: American Cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-326973</link>
		<dc:creator>American Cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 14:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-326973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the so-called intellectual property owner has no right to exclude infringers from his property, we need to re-name all of this stuff as &quot;intellectual royalty right&quot; and forget the &quot;property&quot; moniker.   

Of course, if no-injunction becomes the prevailing wisdom, &quot;intellectual&quot; is also called into doubt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the so-called intellectual property owner has no right to exclude infringers from his property, we need to re-name all of this stuff as &#8220;intellectual royalty right&#8221; and forget the &#8220;property&#8221; moniker.   </p>
<p>Of course, if no-injunction becomes the prevailing wisdom, &#8220;intellectual&#8221; is also called into doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cicero</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-326941</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 13:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-326941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah - someone from my generation!  Great Twisted Sister reference to aid effective legal commentary.  (Q: &quot;What&#039;s that, a Twisted Sister pledge pin? . . . .What do you want to do with your life?&quot;  A: &quot;I wanna rock.&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah &#8211; someone from my generation!  Great Twisted Sister reference to aid effective legal commentary.  (Q: &#8220;What&#8217;s that, a Twisted Sister pledge pin? . . . .What do you want to do with your life?&#8221;  A: &#8220;I wanna rock.&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-326779</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-326779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gene,

Did the district cite Justice Kennedy&#039;s concurring opinion in eBay.  In citing eBay, Rader&#039;s opinion cites primarily to the Opinion of the Court (written by Justice Thomas) and once to Chief Justice Robert&#039;s brief concurring opinion; that&#039;s telling to me.  District courts, in particular, that cite to Juistice Kennedy&#039;s bizarre concurring opinion tend to deny permanent injunctions; that was true of the z4 Technologies v. Microsoft (ED Texas 2006) which was the first case I saw that applied the eBay ruling to deny a permanent injunction, and cited specifically to Kennedy&#039;s concurring opinion to do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gene,</p>
<p>Did the district cite Justice Kennedy&#8217;s concurring opinion in eBay.  In citing eBay, Rader&#8217;s opinion cites primarily to the Opinion of the Court (written by Justice Thomas) and once to Chief Justice Robert&#8217;s brief concurring opinion; that&#8217;s telling to me.  District courts, in particular, that cite to Juistice Kennedy&#8217;s bizarre concurring opinion tend to deny permanent injunctions; that was true of the z4 Technologies v. Microsoft (ED Texas 2006) which was the first case I saw that applied the eBay ruling to deny a permanent injunction, and cited specifically to Kennedy&#8217;s concurring opinion to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2012/12/20/cafc-sanity-on-permanent-injunctions-a-twisted-sister-moment/id=31855/#comment-325597</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2012 22:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipwatchdog.com/?p=31855#comment-325597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would love to hear MaxDrei&#039;s take on this important (and precedential) case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to hear MaxDrei&#8217;s take on this important (and precedential) case.</p>
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